I am anemic or Iron toxic


I’m a newcomer to MAG and am somewhat confused as to whether I am anemic or Iron toxic. I’ve searched and read many of Morley’s blog posts and podcasts and the Mag forum but have not found any discussion of a case that exhibited low Hemoglobin, RBC and Iron numbers along with high Ferritin. My RBC and Hemoglobin numbers seem to indicate anemia but the Ferritin seems to indicate excess Iron. What to do?

I’m male, 79, quite fit physically and with only some minor symptoms of shortness or breath and fatigue when I exercise. My diet has been basically Ancestral for some time and includes no sugar, grain products or seed oils and I have recently started taking most of the supporting supplements recommended in the Cp Protocol. I had been supplementing with B12 (5000mcg), D3 (2000iu) and during the last month 65mg of Elemental Iron per day. I have now discontinued these three items but am wondering what I should do now to get my Hemoglobin and RBC’s up to more normal levels and at the same time lower my Ferritin.

Any thoughts or guidance would be sincerely appreciated.

9/15/16 Range
Hemoglobin 12.3 13-17
Hemocrites 36.4% 40.0-50.0%
Eritocrites (RBC) 4.13 4.0-6.20

Serum Iron 83 65-175
UIBC 290 26-382
TIBC 373 250-450
Saturation 22.3% 20.0-55.0%

Ferritin 128 22-275
Vit. D 63 30-100
B12 1636 211-911 (was over supplementing)
hsCRP 2.53 < .5

in progress 0
Bruce 4 years 15 Answers 649 views 0

Answers ( 15 )

  1. Hi Bruce Greer. I have seen Morley comment that an iron panel can't be properly interpreted without things like Mag RBC, ceruloplasmin, etc. the things he has on his panel. I'm glad that you stopped the iron and D3.

  2. So, can you donate blood? I was told to take 1 teaspoon of D.E. one hour before breakfast, what about 1 tablespoon of Bragg's Apple Cider Vinegar in some water 15 minutes before eating? 1-2 teaspoons of rice bran 2 hours after dinner.

  3. Maurice van Marle, Alan Eckert, Tonya Alt, MJ Hampstead, and Valerie Engh would have more information than I do.

  4. Aside from that, I can't help but wonder what your copper/ceruloplasmin is doing, plus your magnesium, and what your calcium is….

  5. Like you said Melissa. First we need Mag RBC and Ceruloplasmin. Maybe Transferrin as well.

    As always we suggest reading into the dynamics of Magnesium by starting here:


  6. Well….. Ferritin is high, donate blood in addition to what Melissa suggests above.
    Storage D is high, I'm glad to know you stopped taking it. cod liver oil may well be helpful for its retinol.
    enjoy a tasty meal of beef liver plus wholefood C once a week to help with bioavailable copper and iron.

  7. Ow and Mr. Bruce Greer. I'm happy to hear you stopped Hormone D and Iron supplements.

  8. At ferritin of 128, I would do daily stabilized rice bran 2 tsp in water 2 hrs after food or any supplements. It would slowly lower your ferritin. Ceruloplasmin, copper, zinc and Mag RBC numbers are needed. You appear to have no hemochromatosis issue with your % sat low, so you want to lower ferritin and increase other minerals that are low, or decrease any that are high. And it would be good to get the hair tissue analysis HTMA to see your mineral tissue levels and any toxic metal issues.

  9. You need the Full Monty iron panel, including transferrin (siderophilin), serum ceruloplasmin, serum copper, plasma zinc. Your hemoglobin is currently just a bit too low for you to donate blood, so I recommend the phytic acid (rice bran) as Morley recommends. 2 tsp on an empty stomach and then don't eat for two hours afterwards. You can take it just before bed, an hour after eating, or in the morning and then wait two hours before eating breakfast. Follow the graphic 'Options to Lower Iron,' that Melissa posted above: green tea, turmeric (curcumin), etc. Limit red meat, avoid all iron fortified processed foods and do not eat whole food C at the same meal with meat as that increases iron absorption.

    Follow the "Steps to Increase Ceruloplasmin" as this is how you will be able to increase your hemoglobin level. Retinol A and whole Food C and grass fed beef liver (4ounces per week) are needed. Whole food C contains the copper ions needed for the ceruloplasmin enzyme function. Per Morley Robbins, "…Ideal ferritin should be 20-50ng/mL Please note: leading cardiologists are sounding the ALARM regarding rising ferritin levels and their connection to heart events.."

    The D3 has very likely lowered your potassium level as well as Retinol A which is required for the liver to make ceruloplasmin. Low ceruloplasmin causes iron dysregulation.

  10. 79. And in this group. My respects to you sir!

  11. Bruce Greer
    Good advice ^^^^

    When Hemoglobin/Hematocrit are on the LOW side, it is a KNOWN fact that these are clinical signs of LOW bioavailable Copper… ALL facets of Iron metabolism are COPPER DEPENDENT, despite what your favorite M.ineral D.enialist would have you beLIEve…

    You did yourself NO favors taking Hormone-D and Iron supplements. The only thing you might have done to make it WORSE would have been to take HIGH doses of Ascorbic Acid (Please tell me you did NOT do that… ;-( ) D & Iron KILL the Liver's production of Ceruloplasmin, which is the Copper-dependent enzyme that is ESSENTIAL for proper, optimal Iron metabolism…

    Please get the missing elements of your blood work — Mg & Copper are FAAAAAR MORE important than Iron — esp. for assessing what's REALLY going on. Also, please make tracks to donate blood to lower your excess, unbound Iron. Ferritin over 50 ng/mL is NOT your friend…

    I would invite you to read this important article, and advise your doctor that you expect them to do SAME:

    I'll look forward to your additional information and assisting you make further sense out of your "Cu-nundrum!"

    A votre sante!

  12. I believe his hemoglobin is a bit too low for blood donation at the moment, but nothing a little Nordic Naturals Arctic and whole food C and grass fed beef liver won't remedy!!

  13. Thanks to all for your comments and advice. Looks like I have some work to do and it may be complicated a bit by the fact that I live in Mexico and don't have access to all the services and products available easily in the U.S. But, I can order blood tests myself locally and have been able to obtain most of the supplements recommended in the Cp Protocol. I'll look into donating blood. I doubt there are any restrictions here and will post more complete test results soon. This group is a wonderful source of information. Thanks again.

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