So have the vegetarians had it right all this time?

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So have the vegetarians had it right all this time? Seriously considering going that way since my body does not seem to tolerate anything else anyway!

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Chelly 3 years 0 Answers 951 views 0

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  1. Me too, Kristin! After learning in this group that meat aversion is a copper issue and that I needed zinc, I started taking zinc and my lifelong aversion to meat improved enough to where I can at least enjoy eating some meat and dairy in a restaurant or someone's house. And yes, sometimes I even crave it, which shocked me. haha. (But then, hot pastrami sub sandwhiches have been my favorite since I was a kid! lol). It's weird, I've found I can eat certain things and really enjoy it but the majority of meat and dairy grosses me out still. So it's specific things for me, not just animal products in general.

  2. Donna you might also consider 23andme testing. Some genetic SNPs can really explain some conundrums of why some things are different for you than they are for "most" people. Whatever that means. For the record, though, I've had BOTH zinc deficiency AND copper deficiency. They see-saw. My cortisol was through the roof with the zinc deficiency, but was near normal with copper deficiency. However, with the copper deficiency I've also had high cholesterol, high blood pressure, and severe weight loss. And hypothyroid with BOTH. There are a TON of overlapping symptoms with mineral imbalances, even zinc/copper, so that's why it's important to test and not assume. I'll give you an example. Histamine reactions. Weston Price has a statement on their website that if you are high histamine you are low copper and vice versa. Not necessarily. First of all, you can have histamine reactions from enzyme deficiencies even if your mineral balance is normal. BUT, zinc is an inhibitor of mast cell degranulation, whereas copper is a necessary cofactor in BOTH enzymes that break histamine down (DAO and HNMT). Therefore a deficiency in EITHER can cause a histamine problem. Anxiety is a big one, too. Zinc is involved in the production of serotonin. BUT…a copper deficiency will increase the exogenous release of monoamine oxidase (MAO), which accellerates the BREAKDOWN of neurotransmitters. So deficiencies in either can cause anxiety and/or depression. The best advice is to work with a good doctor, get some good testing, and listen to your body. And you may have to make changes and adjustments as things change for you as well (age, pregnancy, illness, etc).

  3. Kim Tracey Konash your explanation makes so much sense. Thank you for such great insight. Sounds like I need to get on with the testing asap!

  4. Thanks, Kim. Very interesting! I'm amazed you had severe weight loss when you were hypothyroid, but that does give a good perspective on how things can vary and it's not black and white. Your anxiety example is also fascinating. I am realizing this is a lifelong journey, not a one-and-done fix. I'll look into 23andme testing also, thanks.

  5. Nichelle, I'm glad Kim was able to help you, too! I hope you don't mind me kind of hijacking your thread. 🙂 We seemed to be after similar information so I just kept asking questions. 🙂

  6. Thanks, ladies. I must say, I'm still learning. The more I find out, the more I realize I don't know. I truly believe the Bible when it says we are "fearfully and wonderfully made". Very complex indeed. I used to be a lot more dogmatic about things when I was younger, but I've been through a couple of extended and painful journeys of chronic illness, and they have been tough schoolmasters. Let's just try to remember we're here to help and learn from each other, but are also given the task of taking responsibility for our own health. Hoping and praying we ALL get to that place…no matter how many different roads we may have to take to get there.

  7. Well said, Kim.

  8. Very well said Kim. I cannot express how much the perspective you shared immediately relieved the stress I was feeling. In my mind…I had to choose one way or the other. Your statement that we must take responsibility for our own health really resonated with me. I guess it not as easy as doing what works for another person, I have to put in the work to figure out what MY body needs. Donna, the info you were seeking is also helpful to me. I thank you :)! I still learned a lot from everyone and appreciate everyone who chimed in

  9. Our bodies are not all the same. Some people thrive on low meat diets. Others need lots of animal products to be healthy. The key is to figure out what works best for your own body.

    I've had good luck with the Blood Type Diet to help me and other family members identify which foods we do well on and which ones are best avoided.

  10. Thanks Karie Spencer Karie Spencer Bumford! Since the NOT so affordable act forces me to carry medical insurance, I shove out 600 bucks a with a 1000 deductible !

  11. Ruth while reading Karie's response, the blood type diet came to my mind. I remembered trying it a few years back and feeling pretty good on it!

  12. Posting this link late but — interesting to the thread re diets. Our digestive systems most closely resemble chimps (not livestock) . And chimps seem to eat like a lot of us are eating, mostly fruits and veggies and occasional animal proteins. (meat). Definitely no processed foods! 🙂 http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2012/07/23/human-ancestors-were-nearly-all-vegetarians/

  13. Looks like an interesting read! Thank you!

  14. The human stomach seems pretty well designed to completely deal with animal protein pieces and the lower gut (with its occupants) appears well evolved to deal with the vegetable matter. Best of both worlds! Use 'em both I'd say.

  15. I was thinking of this thread yesterday- I did find an article where it explained why zinc was better absorbed from animal products. Plant based zinc has phytic acid which binds with the zinc. If I can find it in my plethora of links I'll post it!

  16. There are several article(s) –says we cultivate bacteria to digest meat and anything else we might add– we adapt. I think the GMO and processed foods messes with Ph etc.. This is the big problem. Once Ph is off, it messes with your bacteria and mineral absorption.

  17. Exactly! All the nastiness in our food is the problem. Even small thins like honey and cinnamon aren't real, imagine the issues with meat!

  18. All meat digested to liquid in the stomach. It's an amazing organ.

  19. Kristin not all plant sources of zinc contain phytates, but even those that do can be virtually eliminated by soaking and or sprouting. Its not to food source that is the problem its the preparation. Also George this is true if you have an optimally functioning digestive system which many people do not. Gut bacteria can be imbalamced as well, to the point where probiotics arent enough and part of that is genetic (FUT2). and with low BH4 youll have a problem getting rid of the ammonia from animal protein. Again this is not one size fits all. Everyone is different and for every rule there is an exception.

  20. I can't find the one from yesterday but here is one.. Again, I am not saying that we need to be eating meat all day every day, but there are nutrients found in meat that are not absorbed well from other sources. No one has optimal digestion anymore. But eating meat is helping balance my copper better than any supplement I've ever tried. http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/78/3/633S.long

  21. Ah here it is http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/zinc/ Zinc bioavailability (the fraction of zinc retained and used by the body) is relatively high in meat, eggs, and seafood because of the relative absence of compounds that inhibit zinc absorption and the presence of sulfur-containing amino acids (cysteine and methionine) that improve zinc absorption. The zinc in whole-grain products and plant proteins is less bioavailable due to their relatively high content of phytic acid, a compound that inhibits zinc absorption (6). The enzymatic action of yeast reduces the level of phytic acid in foods; therefore, leavened whole-grain breads have more bioavailable zinc than unleavened whole-grain breads.

  22. Understood, Kim, I was looking from the ideal, optimally functioning world. (A place where what is eaten is based on biology and not ethics!)

  23. A place that ceased to be once we fell for agriculture.

  24. Soaking does almost nothing to reduce phytic acid.

  25. Becky it does if you put ac vinegar, lemon juice or yogurt in the soak water. Lots of documentation on this from nourishing traditions

  26. Right. From nourishing traditions. Pretty much the main source for the fear of phytic acid. I don't trust Sally Fallon.

    I haven't been able to find the links as I never saved them but I've read studies showing that soaking doesn't reduce it enough to make any difference.

    There are also many benefits to phytic acid.

  27. Becky Evans I am all ears. I have a fear in me of phytic acid because I was grain/nut/seed heavy for several years and experienced serious problems with my once solid teeth =( After reading (too) much about phytic acid, I keep believing that i must avoid it and/or soak everything. I am afraid of many foods now because of that info, but maybe all along I was just missing some key things like healthy animals fats and proteins etc……?? Hmm…

  28. Thank you Eva CA. I will definitely read this.

  29. I feel very ill if I almonds. I read that soaking and putting in oven helps with this. I did so and still felt ill.

  30. I read it. Couldnt wait =) Too bad it doesnt refer to teeth. Excellent points though. Thanks for sharing. I have lentils calling my name 😉

  31. Nichelle Chandler could it be lack of digestive fire, as my ayurvedic practitioner called it? I was told to avoid nuts til my gut improved.

  32. Yeah Leanne I think for me…I need to concentrate on healing my gut.

  33. Nichelle Chandler "eat taste heal" is a neat book you might check out.

  34. Thank you! Will see if I can get it on Kindle!

  35. Good illustrations of how we are all different. Even the same foods can give the same person trouble under different circumstances. I did very well with soaked beans….for a while. But all beans, nightshades, grains, pseudograins, and dairy comtain high amounts if lectins which are apparently a problem for many, especially if you have an autoimmune disease. Yet another twist in the mix… Ill say it again. Everyone is different. What is normally "good for you" isn't necessarily good for YOU. Even if temporarily.

  36. Agreed Kim and I do have autoimmune issues. Suck because I love almonds and most nuts.

  37. I get terribly ill feeling from almond flour, and fast! I can eat a small handful of soaked and sprouted almonds but only once in a while. I really avoid nuts for the most part.

  38. just wondering if I will ever be able to return to my fav foods

  39. Nichelle Chandler, you have gut issues clearly, and you likely have methylation issues. Both need to be addressed.

  40. Many people heal, if you are willing to put in the work!

  41. Yay Jeannie! Thanks for sharing the good news. I am soooo willing.

  42. I have methylation issues too….

  43. Of course we we have ;-]

  44. I just google the meaning of methylation…seems like it would be very common. I'm sure I have the issue

  45. I haven't read all of the posts, so not sure if this was already shared – I just listened to this podcast, and Dr. Mensah talked about under vs. over-methylators and diet – whether to lean towards more of a vegetarian versus paleo diet (after the 35 minute mark)…very interesting. http://liveto110.com/93-overmethylation-undermethylation-dr-albert-mensah/

  46. Oh wow thank you Jen Waldmann. I know I am an overmethylator but never knew details of what it all really means for me.

  47. Yes. Thanks Jen! That info is very informative

  48. I've listened to Wendy's podcasts before (podcasts 90 and 91 are with Morley on copper!) – lots of great info.

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